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Runtime: 9:36
0:00 Honda Outsells Stellantis In U.S.
0:46 VinFast To Build EV Plant in Indonesia
1:40 Germany To Sit Out China Tariff Vote
2:26 SAIC Wants Assembly Plant in EU
2:59 China Files Against U.S. IRA With WTO
3:45 EVs Cheaper to Own Than ICE
4:51 Bollinger Appoints Jim Taylor as CEO
5:52 China EV Price War Spreads to ICE Cars
6:49 China EV Aces NCAP Crash Test
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This is Autoline Daily, the show dedicated to enthusiasts of the global automotive industry.
HONDA OUTSELLS STELLANTIS IN U.S.
In another sign of the troubles at Stellantis North America, Honda sold more vehicles than Stella in the first half of the year. Honda is now the fifth largest automaker by sales in the U.S., after GM, Toyota, Ford and the Hyundai Group. Most automakers saw modest growth or slight declines in the first half of the year, but sales at Stellantis fell 15%. Sales of Ram pickups, the company’s most profitable vehicle, were down 20%. We think this helps explain why Stellantis replaced six top executives in its North American operations so far this year.
VINFAST TO BUILD EV PLANT IN INDONESIA
No doubt elected officials in the state of North Carolina are scratching their heads over this one. Two days ago, Vinfast, the Vietnamese automaker, announced it was delaying its $4 billion assembly plant in the state, citing uncertainties in the global EV market. But this morning Vinfast announced it’s building an EV assembly plant in Indonesia, citing the strong potential for EVs in the region. The $200 million plant is sized to make 50,000 right-hand-steer cars a year. Meanwhile, the plant in North Carolina, which is sized to make 150,000 EVs a year, was supposed to open this year, but is now scheduled to open in 2028. North Carolina provided Vinfast with an incentive package worth $1.2 billion to build the plant.
GERMANY TO SIT OUT CHINA TARIFF VOTE
Germany does not want to upset China, which is its largest export market. So it’s going to sit out a vote in the EU today to impose tariffs on Chinese made EVs. German automakers are concerned that the tariffs could lead to a trade war with China that will result in retaliatory measures. Germany says it will abstain from voting because the EU’s investigation into Chinese made EVs is still ongoing and because negotiations between Europe and China are still happening. Italy and Spain say they’ll support the tariffs. But today’s vote is non-binding and a final vote won’t happen until the EU completes its investigation
SAIC WANTS ASSEMBLY PLANT IN EU
Even so, many Chinese automakers are not taking any chances. They want to build assembly plants in the EU. Car News China reports that SAIC is in talks with Spain about opening a factory in the country, though it could also go to either Hungary or the Czech Republic. SAIC was hit with the highest tariff of 37.6%. SAIC will produce MG models at the plant and it’s aiming to kick off production in 2027.
CHINA FILES AGAINST U.S. IRA WITH WTO
China isn’t just pressuring Europe to drop the tariffs. It’s fighting back against the U.S. Inflation Reduction Act and has asked the World Trade Organization to set up a panel to settle the dispute. Chinese-made EVs are excluded from EV subsidies provided by the Inflation Reduction Act. China says it hasn’t been able to reach a solution in negotiations with the U.S. government, so it’s turning to the WTO.
EVs CHEAPER TO OWN THAN ICE
Even though EVs cost more than ICE vehicles on average, a new study by J.D. Power for Automotive News found that EVs cost less than ICE vehicles over the long term in most of the United States. An EV costs $3,000 less to own on average over five years than a similar ICE vehicle. J.D. Power factored in the transaction price, federal and state subsidies, OEM charger incentives, interest rates, residual values, and tax, title and license fees. It also includes the cost of insurance, maintenance, charging, gasoline fueling and charger purchase and installation. New Jersey had the highest savings, with EV buyers saving $10,000 over five years. Maine and West Virginia were the only states where ICE vehicles cost less to own. And we should note that the savings are for purchasing an EV. A 3-year lease for an EV costs $1,800 more on average than an ICE.
BOLLINGER APPOINTS JIM TAYLOR AS CEO
In something of a surprise move, Bollinger Motors, the EV commercial vehicle startup, appointed Jim Taylor as CEO. Taylor had extensive experience at General Motors, including running Cadillac and Hummer, but his last job was as CEO of ELMS, or Electric Last Mile Solutions, which was another commercial EV startup. Taylor had to resign from that position over questionable stock purchases, and ELMS eventually went bankrupt. Two years ago Mullen Automotive bought a controlling interest in Bollinger Motors, and Robert Bollinger, who founded the company decided it was time to step aside as CEO and bring in an experienced automotive exec, which is why they hired Taylor. Robert Bollinger remains with the company, which is expected to start making Class 4 electric chassis cabs later this year and will be assembled by Roush Industries.
CHINA EV PRICE WAR SPREADS TO ICE CARS
Early last year, Tesla kicked off a price war in China that soon spread to every EV manufacturer in the country. The price war does not show any signs of slowing down and it’s now spreading to ICE vehicles. SAIC-Volkswagen just chopped the price of its top selling sedan, the Lavida XR to about $9,600, which matches the price of the electric BYD Seagull. Toyota chopped the price of the Camry to just under $18,000. Legacy automakers are trying to protect their ICE market share as EVs and PHEVs eat into their business. Bloomberg reports that discounting on internal combustion vehicles hit almost 20%. Analysts say that if car sales are weak this summer, more price cuts could be on the way. And some auto execs believe the price war could go on for another 2 to 3 years.
CHINA EV ACES NCAP CRASH TEST
A decade ago, the crash protection of Chinese-made cars was abysmal. You could even call them death traps. Not anymore. China’s latest crash standards, called C-NCAP, are almost the same as Europe’s NCAP standards. NCAP stands for New Car Assessment Program. And an electric crossover from Seres and Huawei, just earned the highest safety rating under the China NCAP program. That suggests it could earn the highest rating from Euro NCAP, which up to now has rated the Tesla Model Y as the safest car it’s ever tested. The Chinese car that aced the crash test is the Aito M9, is available as a BEV or EREV and is priced between $65,000 and $78,000.
And that wraps up today’s show, thanks for watching.
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Article say that EVs replacement batteries which is a huge cost. You have to see who writes it, and what they want you to think their way
Not platform bashing, but I don’t see how the JD Power study shows EV being cheaper to own vs. ICE in the first 5 years. with average driving, the ICE many times won’t even have the initial set of tires worn out and shouldn’t have had a single component needing replacement. The EV should also not have anything needing replacement in that time frame. Exceptions are oil changes, which if you used the most expensive oil out there should still be less than $600, and on EVs “maybe” a set of tires (or two from what some owners have told me). That goes back to insurance which at best would be the same (EV is usually a bit more) and initial cost. I’m just not seeing how this result was arrived at.
So, let’s see, Stellantis drops the Chrysler brand down to one vehicle after dropping the 300, Dodge drops the Challenger, Charger, Durango leaving just the Hornet and trucks while trucks are down 20%, meanwhile Ford launches the Bronco to compete with the Jeeps especially the Wrangler which never had competition before, and they are surprised Honda outsells them? Doesn’t really seem like it takes a rocket scientist (or automotive CEO) to see what happened here.
Without that one story the entire show is EV related. Just surprising that 8% of US sales encompasses the whole show.
Maybe they should reconsider completely dropping the V8 option in Ram pickups. Indications are that the new six works well, but its longevity is unknown, and a lot of people just want a V8.
As far as the JD Power report on ICE vs EV cost over 5 years, yes, the EV doesn’t need oil changes, and fuel cost is lower, if mostly home charging is used. Still, as Dford says, the EV is more likely to need tires during that 5 years, and maybe a bigger thing, is that the residual value of EVs vs ICErs 5 years from now is a big unknown.
Hypocrisy?
For decades, China aggressively protected its market. Its OEMs blatantly scoffed at international patents while copying EU and NA OEM designs. For decades, it forced foreign OEMs to partner with Chinese OEMs in order to have access to the Chinese market (guaranteeing technology transfer from the West to fledgling Chinese OEMs). It then ratcheted up to mandating >51% Chinese ownership, then mandating foreign OEMs to establish unique local Chinese brands for its Chinese manufacturing partners. All the while, import taxes/tariffs were amongst the most punitive in the world.
Admittedly, it was a matter of time for Biden’s IRA to be challenged by the WTO. But the Chinese should not be in this line.
Decades ago, VW and GM went into their “full prone position” to gain access to the Chinese market. Others followed later as the short term-focused Wall Street analysts punished the investment ratings of those OEMs not as “invested” in China. Oh wait! Wall Street now says western OEMs should exit the China market.
I guess there are plenty of hypocrites to cite.
@Lambo
“I try to invest in businesses that are so wonderful that an idiot can run them. Because sooner or later, one will.”
― Warren Buffett
I don’t put much trust on car reports nowadays. Years ago reports were more truthful, but today the mighty dollar has taken over and writers have an agenda that’s influence by big companies. I know a lot about cars and I’ll form my own opinions.
Thanks for the info.
Warren Buffett has 40 million shares of GM, or did last August. He must consider them to be more idiot proof than other car companies.
In SE Michigan, I see a lot of Cadillac Lyriqs in dealer inventory. They are very nice vehicles, albeit with strange taillamps. I hope Cadillac hasn’t ignored keeping the XT5 and XT6 up to date in their zeal to transition to an EV future.
I am surprised by the JD Power survey. Didn’t think the purchase price of equivalent vehicles was even close.
eg. Canada Kia Niro EV $44.5k, Niro PHEV $37k, Niro ICE $33.5k
There are real differences in annual maintenance (0$ for the Bolt, and $500 for Service A and Service B for the Outback). Fuel is a lot cheaper too. Gas $1.60/litre, hydro $0.03/kWh
Our experience is that tires last the same.
But you’d have to be driving 24/7 for years to make an EV cheaper even in Canada despite the fuel savings. Doesn’t mean they are a bad choice, just not the cheapest. If you need to save money, a well maintained used Civic or Corolla would be my suggestion.
Great show,thanks
I’m not sure who is onboard or not, when it comes to the EV movement but to simply say “they” seems like it’s some sort of conspiracy. With that said, I’m not sure why they still try to peddle this notion that EVs are cheaper. Back when EVs first started that was a huge push. Imagine never having to buy gas! EVs were going to save us all money. They quickly realized that wasn’t the case and now it’s about doing your part to slow climate change or reduce our dependency on oil or improve air quality. Which are all fine pursuits.
So, when these stories pop up, I have to laugh. With a 11K hit right off the showroom in the case of the Niro plus charging continuing to creep up in cost, I’d say saving money isn’t a reason to buy an EV. They may have many of other benefits but saving money isn’t one. I have my doubts that it will ever be one. So just stop trying to push it and face the fact that we will spend more as we do with everything, and we will improve air quality by making the switch. We may find out one day we actually do more damage to the environment due to strip mines and battery chemistry but for now it seems like it’s the right things to do. So great, let’s all do our part to save the planet but don’t try and convivence me I’ll save money doing it.
I wonder if JD Power included all ICE vehicles and all EVs to come up with their price comparison. If you include Escalades, big pickups, and GLSs, it will run up the average price of ICErs. They were talking about leases, though, and there may be a lot of “subsidized” leases being a factor in their numbers.
A quick check shows a 2023 Bolt to be worth $18-18.65K. If it is reliable, that could be cheap to own in operating cost, if you use mostly home charging, even compared to a Civic or Corolla. Of course, the Civic or Corolla might, or probably will be worth a lot more when 8 years old, and there would be concerns about the battery in the Bolt, even if still working well.
Dford, Kit, Lambo on EV five year cost.
Our limited N=2 experience, my son’s Mustang Mach-e GT and my wife’s Mach-e is different from all other EV owners we know. Tire cost are substantially higher than with an ICE powered vehicle. My son, my wife and I think that our EVs are undriveable in winter on the all-season tires. Sliding all over. Admittedly, both my wife and son are quick drivers. So we put the vehicles on sets of winter wheels. With those the EVs drive fabulously. My wife just used up her first set of winter tires in … 15,000 miles. I told her “Honey, when I tell you that you drive fast you always reply that is not the case. I just had new tires put on your vehicle after less than 1/3 of the miles I drive with a set, which means that your tires agree with me.” 🙂 None of our many friends with EVs think the vehicles need winter wheels but I would classify most of them as non-car people.
We like the EVs for many reasons but have not purchased those to save money. They just drive very well, comfortable, fast and you never have to stop at a gas station. As long as you have, as my son and his wife and we do, ICE-powered vehicles for the long-distance road trips for which the EVs are not great, yet. We drive at least 6,000 miles per year in long road trips and zero miles of those are with an EV.
@Lambo on EVs. Fully agree with you. In our own experience with one EV and three ICEs in our household, and the same at my son’s EVs drive great, and have their strengths. As your only vehicle? No. You need ICEs if you have an EV unless you never go on prolonged road trips. We drive thousands of miles per year on long road trips, zero of which with the EV.
I also wonder if JD included the cost to add a level 2 charger in your home. Because charging with a 120V outlet isn’t actually practical. They like to say the cost to charge includes some home charging but that’s not going to happen without spending the 3-5k to have a charger installed.
Level 1 charging can work for a lot if people. 12 hours of overnight charging will give ~40 miles of driving with an efficient EV. If done every day, that’s 14,600 niles a year. An EV used for short local trips woukdn’t even need to be plugged in every day.
“Without that one story the entire show is EV related. Just surprising that 8% of US sales encompasses the whole show.”
I have noticed this for quite some time. I have even gotten to the point of fast forwarding though parts of the show. Don’t get me wrong, I have enjoyed watching the Autoline staff for years, and still enjoy their specialty reports concerning the industry.
Here in the real world our dealership doesn’t even stock new EVs anymore. We just buy up off lease or used EV vehicles that sell for half of the original price. However, even these sit for a while. (and this is not in rural Iowa but in an East Coast ‘mask wearing while driving by yourself in a closed vehicle’ state).