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Runtime: 13:50
0:00 VW Tested Rivian Zonal Compute in Audis
0:53 Does VW Need Cariad Anymore?
2:30 Rivian Designs Out Tons of Cost
3:49 EVs Save $10,000 Per 100,000 Miles
5:34 Buy A Honda FCEV, Get A $30,000 Check
7:01 J.D. Power IQS Rates Ram Best
8:22 Toyota To Debut AV System in China
9:11 Audi Started F1 Development Two Years Ago
10:07 By 2030, 1 Of Every 3 Vehicles Will Be Chinese
11:03 Genesis Updates Electrified G80 Sedan
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VW TESTED RIVIAN ZONAL COMPUTE IN AUDIS
Rivian and Volkswagen caught the industry by surprise when they announced a joint venture this week. The most amazing part is that the story never leaked even though both companies have been working on a deal since early this year. Reuters has a fascinating story on how the deal got together. The Volkswagen Group secretly shipped some camouflaged Audis to Rivian’s operations in California early this year, where they were stripped of their existing domain architecture and outfitted with Rivian’s zonal electronic architecture to see how the cars would perform. Apparently, they passed with flying colors, because VW announced it will invest as much as $5 billion into Rivian.
DOES VW NEED CARIAD ANYMORE?
And this makes us wonder what’s going to happen with VW’s Cariad software business unit? VW created Cariad in 2020 to develop software stacks for all the company’s brands. But it quickly ran into delays and problems, and VW was pouring money into the division. Those failures were a key reason why VW’s CEO Herbert Diess was let go in 2022. Then, last year, the CEO, CFO and CTO of Cariad were fired and 2,000 of the unit’s 6,000 software engineers were laid off as the software unit posted a loss of €2.4 billion. As Cariad continued to flounder, it caused critical new car launches to be delayed. That’s when Porsche decided it couldn’t afford to wait around and invested in a Silicon Valley software company called Applied Intuition. Volkswagen decided it couldn’t wait around either and invested €2.4 billion in Horizon Robotics in China for help in software for autonomous technology, as well as €2.4 billion in XPeng for help in software and EVs. That was OK for the Chinese market, but VW also needed an architecture and software stack that it could use outside of China, which is why it turned to Rivian. And so, with its software bases covered in China and the rest of the world, why the heck does VW need Cariad?
RIVIAN DESIGNS OUT TONS OF COST
Speaking of Rivian, it can’t believe it’s good luck. That potential $5 billion from VW ensures it will be able to launch its R2 vehicle with no fear of running out of cash before Job One. Yesterday, CEO RJ Scaringe and his executive team showed industry analysts the progress they’re making, especially when it comes to cutting costs. Rivian’s second generation RT truck and SUV are 20% cheaper to make than the first generation. Its R2 vehicles, which come out next year, will be 45% cheaper to make than the Gen 2. And it also teased a next generation R3 vehicle. The cost savings come from a variety of changes, including that zonal architecture VW is so impressed with, as well as the propulsion system, the body and the chassis. All the motors and inverters will now be built in-house, and it’s going to a larger format 4695 cylindrical battery cell, which will be bigger and more energy dense than the 4680 cells that Tesla uses. And to think, all of this will be much more possible to pull off because Cariad couldn’t get its act together.
EVs SAVE $10,000 PER 100,000 MILES
EVs cost more when they need to be fixed, but they save thousands of dollars in fuel costs. Argonne National Laboratory estimated the fuel savings potential for replacing a gas-powered vehicle with the same sized electric vehicle. And not surprisingly, pickups have the greatest potential for fuel cost savings when switching to an EV, at 14-cents per mile, followed by vans and SUVs, which are at 11-cents per mile. And if you assume at least a 10-cent per mile savings average for most vehicles, that would translate to $100 per 1,000 miles or $10,000 after 100,000 miles, just in fuel savings by switching to an EV.
BUY A HONDA FCEV, GET A $30,000 CHECK
The biggest drawback to fuel cell vehicles right now is there aren’t many places to fill up. That’s why Honda is only going to offer the fuel cell version of the CR-V in California where there’s the most stations and it’s going to pay for most of your hydrogen. Honda’s also only going to lease the vehicle and there’s three options; 2-, 3- or 6-years with mileage ranges between 36,000 and 72,000 miles. With about $3,000 down you can lease the vehicle for as little as $389 a month, which means it would cost you almost $31,000 just for the vehicle over the 6-year lease. But hydrogen costs would be really low because that 6-year lease also includes a $30,000 fuel credit. From what I could find hydrogen costs are roughly $30 a kilogram right now, which means that $30,000 credit would cover about 70% of your lease. The fuel cell CR-V also has a nearly 18 kWh battery pack that provides 29 miles of range, so that credit could last even longer. GM did a similar lease-only option with EV1 because it just saw it as a test vehicle to learn from, but let’s hope if customers like the fuel cell CR-V too that Honda doesn’t send most of them to the crusher.
J.D. POWER IQS RATES RAM BEST
J.D. Power released its annual Initial Quality Study, which surveys new car buyers after 90 days of ownership. For the first time, the study incorporates franchise dealer repair visits and here are some of the highlights. Ram is the highest ranked brand in the study, followed by Chevrolet and Hyundai in third place. Porsche is the highest ranked premium brand and it’s followed by Lexus and Genesis, respectively. At the other end of the spectrum, Audi and Volvo were second and third from the bottom and Dodge ranked dead last. J.D. Power also found that BEVs and PHEVs require more repairs than gas powered vehicles and that owners are taking them to the dealership at three times the rate as ICE vehicles. Some other things owners complained about include warnings for things like seat belts, rear seat reminders and inaccurate or annoying alerts from driver assistance systems. Owners are also frustrated with Apple CarPlay and Android Auto and said they had trouble connecting their smartphone. And lastly, more owners say their vehicle literally stinks. All brands, except Kia and Nissan, saw higher complaints of unpleasant interior smells compared to last year.
TOYOTA TO DEBUT AV SYSTEM IN CHINA
Toyota and its Chinese joint venture partner, GAC, announced several new products to help regain its competitiveness in China. Next year, they plan to introduce the first electric vehicle with an advanced driver assistance system that can park itself and autonomously drive on highways and roads. The JV is developing the system with Momenta, a startup that’s collaborating with Mercedes on autonomous driving as well. GAC Toyota also said that they plan to introduce a new LFP battery in 2026 or 2027, that could cut the production costs of the bz4X by 40%. Toyota is losing ground in China. While it is fifth overall in sales, its sales are down 22% in the first four months of the year.
AUDI STARTED F1 DEVELOPMENT TWO YEARS AGO
All Formula 1 power units, meaning the engine, electric motor, battery and control electronics, come from manufacturers based in the UK, France, Italy and Japan. But in 2026 Germany will be added to that list when Audi joins F1 as a factory racing team. While that’s still almost 2 years away, Audi says it started development of its power unit in the spring of 2022 and is now testing under race conditions. Audi is taking over for the Sauber team, which consistently runs at the back of the pack, so it’s not going to be easy to be competitive out of the gate. But Audi is clearly trying to get the best headstart that it can and there’s big rules changes coming in 2026, notably a 3X increase in electrical power, which could help level the playing field.
BY 2030, 1 OF EVERY 3 VEHICLES WILL BE CHINESE
The Chinese auto industry is a juggernaut that will capture one third of all new vehicle sales globally by the end of this decade, according to an analysis from Alix Partners. It predicts that by 2030, Chinese automakers will be selling 9 million vehicles outside of China, including exports and vehicles made locally in various markets. That’s because China is faster-to-market with vehicles that are cheaper to build, cheaper to buy, and have newer technology. The product cycle for some cars in China is now just 1.6 years, compared to 5.4 years for non-Chinese legacy automakers. That shorter product cycle means new tech can be introduced far faster versus OEMs who only redesign a platform every five years or more.
GENESIS UPDATES ELECTRIFIED G80 SEDAN
Genesis isn’t changing the styling of the new Electrified G80 sedan that much, but it did add over 5 inches or 130mm to the wheelbase. We do notice some design tweaks around the rear pillar, but the extra length is really about adding interior space. Genesis also gave rear seat passengers a couple of giant screens to look at. While its name says Electrified, this is a full battery electric car that was launched about three years ago, but no word when the new version will go on sale yet.
But that’s a wrap for this show and this week. Don’t forget we’ll be on break all next week, so no Dailys or After Hours. However, we will post several videos that we think will be of interest to you, so keep an eye out for that. I hope you have a good weekend and 4th of July if you’ll be celebrating. See you again on the 8th.
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Dodge – “dead last”… Some things never change. But then again, I guess that’s not all bad, because doesn’t that spot usually belong to Land Rover?
I really like what Genesis has been doing since they were split out as the luxury division of Hyundai. Their styling and tech rivals (and IMHO in some comparisons beats) that of much more storied and established luxury brands. My guess is those industry-first turn signal blind spot cameras will eventually start showing up in other brands soon.
Dodge probably means Hornet for the J. D. Power thing. Not long ago, Dodge and Ram were the same thing, but no more. I don’t know if the Promaster van would be included with Ram. There seem to be no EPA ratings for it, because it’s too much a commercial use vehicle.
Sean the second graph to the EV saving 10k over 100k miles graph should have included the mean price of the EV vs the ICE. We all know they are not equal yet. So, although you may save 10k in gas if you have to spend 10K more up front you are just breaking even at 100k miles. As you said repairs are more so maybe not even then.
Someone at Stellantis has to be wondering why Ram is #1 while Dodge is last. Tim Kuniskis was CEO for both until he retired in May so something is amiss.
Even though Ram = pickup trucks, and possibly Promaster vans, while Dodge = Hornet, it’s hard to make too much of these J.D. Power rankings. CR’s reliability surveys show Ram pickups only slightly better than Hornet, neither too great. I guess the J.D. Power ratings say the Ram trucks are great for the first 90 day, and are downhill from there.
Lambo, buy a used EV with $4,000 previously owned tax credit and pay less than similar ICE version. Let the savings double!
Doesn’t Dodge also have a Durango in the JDP survey?
I find it interesting these fuel cost comparisons of EV vs ICE never seem to tell you the cost basis of the fuel, either gasoline or electricity. Seems to me to be pretty fundamental to their conclusions.
Yeah, Durango may have been in the survey. It is discontinued, but only very recently. It is/was made alongside Grand Cherokee.
How much home charging, and how much public charging are these EV fuel savings based on? It makes a huge difference.
So how did they arrive at this 14cent per
Mile savings on EV over gas? Headlines like that are meaningless propaganda because what they don’t say is the study assumes a specific driving pattern, area/distance per day, always home charging, perfect battery performance/low degradation, and you probably have to close one eye and fart while driving.
And no one drives that exact way. To be realistic, the study should consider driving in the same manner as one would use a gas vehicle. Meaning beyond daily commute – on long trips, maybe to pull a trailer or do activities beyond a job/school.. Because real life means you can’t charge at home all the time when you’re a hundred miles away so you’re paying for a charger, and that can cost as much or more than a fuel up. You also probably get much shorter range than a tankful of gas, especially if towing a load – so that’s more frequent expensive charging. Even if it were true, it’s worth it not to have range anxiety or have to search for an unoccupied charger and then kill an hour while it charges.
For anyone who wants to know the methodology used for the ICE/EV cost comparison, it’s all there in the actual report, linked from the INSIDEEVs article linked from the show’s transcript.
https://publications.anl.gov/anlpubs/2024/02/187786.pdf
From page 15: “this study assumes 80% home charging and
20% public charging for both BEV and PHEV.”
No, I didn’t read all 30-some pages of the report.
A more interesting than usual F1 race.
I believe the Whole EV vs ICE stories are pretty pointless. There are so many variables that can make one outshine the other very easily. As pointed out by others I truly believe an EV can be a great alternative depending on how it’s used/charged. Meanwhile if your lifestyle involves long trips and towing it would be pretty hard to beat an ICE. Thats why I think assuming 100% replacement is silly. Most homes have at least 2 vehicles and if one was an EV it could likely be used in conjunction with the ICE so that all needs are met. While it may not cut gas consumption completely it would likely cut almost half the need. A larger scale hybrid. One vehicle to use locally and home charge where an EV shines and an ICE for all the needs an EV lacks. That to me makes almost more sense than buying a hybrid where you are hauling around an engine and battery to get a slight boost in fuel economy.
I already do this with my motorcycles and not strictly just to save gas (but it does). I put about 8000 miles a year on the bikes riding them to work. If I had a small EV it would likely work fine for going to work each day but I would not give up my ICE vehicle for trips and towing. So as for the comparisons I really don’t care what any study says, it’s not selling me on the idea. When they offer something affordable and meets my needs, I’ll go electric but not until then. Besides I am already pretty sure that no matter what is presented there will likely never be a savings. Going electric is an environmental initiative to improve air quality and reduce oil dependency. They dont sell it as a cost savings anymore because in most cases and certainly into the future there will be none and likely cost more. IMO
Lambo quote: “That to me makes almost more sense than buying a hybrid where you are hauling around an engine and battery to get a slight boost in fuel economy.”
You get a huge boost in fuel economy, not a small one, especially for short trips and stop-and-go driving. Yes, you are hauling around an engine and (small, <2 kWh in most cases) battery, but with a much simpler transmission than in a pure ICE vehicle. Understandably, some people don't like they way they "sound," especially during acceleration, but to me, beauty is a beauty does, with excellent fuel economy and reliability.
Kit- A Hybrid is a mild increase for Highway while, it is a significant increase for city. So again, to my point is all dependent on how it’s used. The Corolla only goes from 41 to 46 on the Hwy by getting the hybrid. While city improvement is 32 to 53. Some hybrids provide 20-40 miles of EV range which is about a gallon or gas. So again, it depends on the vehicle and how it’s used. Wasn’t saying a hybrid isn’t a decent solution but looking at it from a farther distance. Rather than buy two hybrid cars it might make more sense to own one ICE and one EV.
Lots of work is being done in the hybrid arena now so my feelings might change. Either way I’m not real excited about buying anything new right now regardless. We’ll see how things go in the next 6 months.
These are the hybrids I’ve had, other than Priuses:
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=47090&id=47092&id=47638&id=47636
Actually, I’m surprised at how much better the highway mileage is with the hybrids, especially the Camry. It’s ~36% better, with, basically, the same gas engine, except for the Atkinson tuning in the hybrid. The hybrid has LRR tires which would contribute.
As far as plug-in hybrids, unless you have home charging and a lot of shorter trips, they make little sense. They have big enough batteries that they cost a lot more than non-plug ins, and some of them get no better mpg than non-hybrids, if not plugged in.
If I had home charging available, I’d probably have one hybrid, one BEV, and maybe one ICE sports car that doesn’t get driven much.
I suppose when nobody was looking, the per kilowatt charges at public chargers pretty much skyrocketed. In comparison testing. I’ve seen 35 cents up to 42 cents, which when compared to gas/diesel was on par or cheaper than electric. If you go BEV and charge at home you are still golden but be aware.
Formula 1 is beginning to see competitive racing at the front (mid pack has been pretty good all along) IMO. Hard racing this weekend and my take on the “incident”, and I’m not a Max fan, was that Max gave Lando a lane, and space, and Lando turned into Max. I know: opinions may vary 😉
The last time I looked at the rates on a public charger, in a Walmart parking lot in Florida, it was 44c/kWh. I don’t remember whose charger.
There’s closer racing at the front in F1, and there is close competition for 2nd and 3rd in the constructors championship. Were it not of the “incident,” and if Lando had finished 2nd, Ferrari and McLaren would be about tied at 2nd in constructors. Aston Martin have sure fallen, Alonso was getting podiums last year. I suspect he is really frustrated, being in such a non-competitive car.
For sure Kit, better racing; McLaren is the biggest surprise for me. Almost parity with Red Bull. McLaren up and Red Bull, a slight fall .
I’d like to see a Norris, Leclerc, or Russell in the same car as Max, but that’s not likely to happen. Red Bull want Max to be a clear #1 driver, I suppose so he can set more records, and probably to reduce the number of “incidents” like happened in Austria. Two aggressive hot shot drivers in the same car are likely to occupy the same place on the track more often than desirable.
No new Daily posts since the end of June…did this blog shut down ? Lose funding? Not clap hard enough or report one too many setback stories about the EV revolution?