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Runtime: 11:58
0:00 No Tesla Model Y Refresh This Year
0:51 4 Automakers Score Big with Super Bowl Ads
1:59 NTSB Calls Foul on Anti-Tesla Super Bowl Ad
2:38 Chevy Equinox EV MSRP is Not $30K
3:56 Toyota Takes Action at Daihatsu Over Safety Scandal
4:50 Chrysler’s Halcyon Concept is Just a Concept
6:39 Don’t Call It NACS, Call It J3400
7:17 BYD Sees Big EV Opportunity in South America
9:04 Why the Cybertruck is Like Cordless Tools
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This is Autoline Daily, the show dedicated to enthusiasts of the global automotive industry.
NO TESLA Y REFRESH THIS YEAR
Last year we reported that Tesla was working on refreshing the design of the Model 3 and Y. We even learned the code names. The Model 3 refresh was called Highland, and the Y was called Juniper. The Model 3 refresh launched in China last September, but now we’re learning that there won’t be any refresh of the Model Y this year in either the U.S. or China. And you know what that means. Without anything new to offer, the only way Tesla can lure more people to look at a Y is by cutting the price. And sure enough, yesterday Tesla cut prices of some models of the Y by about $1,000.
4 AUTOMAKERS SCORE BIG WITH SUPER BOWL ADS
Only four automakers aired commercials during the Super Bowl, Volkswagen, Kia, BMW and Toyota. But they were a hit with consumers and helped drive interest in the brands, especially VW who teased the new electric Bus, the ID.Buzz. The German automaker generated the biggest increase in search traffic on Cars.com, Kelley Blue Book and Autotrader. VW also had the third highest engagement among all advertisers according to EDO Inc., an analytics company that measures traffic searches when ads are aired. Meanwhile, Kia’s ad ranked third in the USA Today list of most popular ads and BMW’s was at number 7. And Toyota’s ad helped boost traffic on Cars.com and Edmunds websites. Among the auto brands, EDO says VW accounted for 69% of search activity after the ads aired, Kia was next at 15%, followed by Toyota at 10% and BMW at 6%.
NTSB CALLS FOUL ON ANTI-TESLA SUPER BOWL AD
There was another auto related commercial that aired during the Super Bowl that garnered a lot of attention. A group called the Dawn Project ran two ads criticizing the safety of Tesla’s Autopilot system. But one of them drew the ire of the National Transportation Safety Board for using its logo without its permission. The NTSB put out a statement saying it “had no involvement in the production of this advertisement, did not authorize the use of its seal, nor does it endorse the work of the Dawn Project.” So, the agency asked the group to remove its logo from the ad which it did.
CHEVY EQUINOX EV MSRP IS NOT $30,000
When GM first introduced the Chevy Equinox EV it promised a base price of $30,000. But the automaker just confirmed it’s going to cost a bit more than that. The front-wheel drive 1LT version starts at $34,995 including destination charges. But the model also qualifies for the $7,500 federal tax credit, which will drop the price to $27,495 for eligible buyers. The model has an estimated 300 plus miles of range and will be available later this year. GM also confirmed that all-wheel drive Equinox EVs will have an EPA estimated 285 miles of range but it did not reveal pricing for those models. According to Autoforecast Solutions, the Equinox EV goes into production in June at GM’s plant in San Luis Potosi in Mexico.
TOYOTA CASTIGATES DAIHATSU OVER ETHICS LAPSE
Toyota is laying down the hammer at its Daihatsu subsidiary over a safety scandal. The company replaced the top leadership at Daihatsu with Toyota executives. Daihatsu’s Chairman and President are resigning and Toyota is abolishing the chairman position. Toyota will also bring some of Daihatsu’s overseas operations into its own and refocus Daihatsu’s business on minicars. Toyota is making the changes at Daihatsu because an independent investigation found it rigged safety tests on 64 nameplates over three decades, including Toyota vehicles. And last year, Daihatsu was forced to suspend shipments of all of its models. Toyota blames growing Daihatsu too fast over the last several years for the issues because it overstretched its development and production resources.
CHRYSLER’S HALCYON CONCEPT IS JUST A CONCEPT
Chrysler revealed an all-new electric sedan concept, called the Halcyon. If Stellantis hadn’t pulled out of CES this is the vehicle it would have shown there. It’s based on the STLA Large platform and features future technology, like an 800-volt lithium-sulfur battery, inductive road charging and autonomous driving. But we got a chance to check out the Halcyon in person and it seems more like a preview of future styling elements that it will incorporate into production models and technologies that it’s pursuing. The car itself was too small. I’m tall, but my head stuck above the roofline and I wouldn’t have fit if the roof didn’t fold up out of the way. It also didn’t look like there was a battery in the floor, so if this car ever gets built it will be a lot taller. Plus, autonomous driving with fold away steering wheels seems like a far off tech, no one is making lithium-sulfur batteries for EVs in volume production yet and there’s only one public road in the U.S. that I’m aware of that has built-in inductive road charging. Even still, I think you can take a lot away from the design and we can see how this could be massaged into a future production car. Things like the simplicity of the styling, the lighting signatures, the new Chrysler logo, the fastback roofline, the wheels as well as other little styling elements. The brand says it will have an all-electric lineup by 2028, but doesn’t say when or if we’ll see a vehicle like Halcyon. It will have an all-new, all-electric CUV based on the STLA Large platform that launches next year, which is a good thing. With production of the 300 ending last year, Chrysler only makes the Pacifica minivan right now.
DON’T CALL IT NACS, CALL IT J3400
Sticking with Stellantis for a moment, it says it will adopt the SAE J3400 charging connector on some of its EVs next year. You may not have heard of J3400 but you know what it is. It’s Tesla’s charger or what it calls the North American Charging Standard or NACS for short. However, Stellantis makes no mention of Tesla or NACS, so its vehicles may not have access to Supercharger stations. But it’s partnered with 6 other automakers to launch the IONNA charging network in North America, which will feature NACS connectors.
BYD SEES BIG EV OPPORTUNITY IN SOUTH AMERICA
BYD is on a tear. It ended up last year as the biggest car company in China and sells more pure electric cars in the country than Tesla does. So, meet the BYD Seagull, the company’s best selling car, which goes for about $11,000 in China. Now, BYD is launching it in South America, first in Uruguay, probably followed by Brazil. But in South America BYD is calling it the Dolphin Mini. And it’s raising the price significantly, even though the car is still a bargain. There are two versions of this 4-door hatchback. A 30 kilowatt battery pack that delivers 305 kilometers of range according to China’s CLTC test procedures, starts at $20,000. A 38.8 kWh pack, with 405 kilometers of range, starts at $23,000. The car gets a 55 kilowatt electric motor that has 135 newton meters of torque. That converts to 99 horsepower and 99 pound feet. Let’s go back to those range numbers and convert them to miles and roughly calculate how they’d perform on the EPA test, which is much more stringent than what’s used in China or Europe. The 30 kWh pack would likely deliver around 123 miles of range, while the 38.8 kWh pack would be about 163 miles. One reason the car is so inexpensive is that it would never meet U.S. crash standards. The people at Caresoft, who specialize in benchmarking and cost comparisons, estimate the BYD Seagull would need another $4,000 of structural improvements to meet U.S. standards.
CARESOFT CRITIQUES THE CYBERTRUCK
Speaking of Caresoft, they’re about to begin a deep dive into a Tesla Cybertruck, but before they do they invited us over to check it out, so of course we jumped at the opportunity. The company’s president, Terry Woychowski also happens to be a former full-size truck exec at GM as well as a genuine farmer and he has been putting the Cybertruck to work, hauling hay and 1,000 pound loads of horse feed. And since Terry knows trucks and truck buyers so well, we felt like the million dollar question was, are people who actually use trucks like trucks going to go for the Cybertruck? Here’s what he had to say…
(Clip of Cybertruck interview with Terry Woychowski can only be viewed in the video version of today’s show.)
I thought that was a pretty interesting answer from Terry and we go through a lot more in that video, like fit and finish, ride and handling and all the pros and cons of using the Cybertruck like a truck. If you’d like to see more, we’ll provide a link in the transcript and description box.
But that brings us to the end of today’s show. Thanks for tuning in.
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I’m a truck user and I don’t care what powers the truck I care about it’s performance and for me living in a bit of an isolated area there aren’t enough charging stations and even if they fix that the distances to be covered at times at too large. I’ll be ordering a new truck soon and I’ll go with a dinosaur powered truck.
No doubt someone at Tesla ran the numbers and found cutting $1000 off the existing Y was likely cheaper than doing a refresh. Maybe a smart decision as they still don’t look dated or in need of a refresh. It would likely just differentiate model years more than anything.
So where is EDO’s control group? Did they check and see if traffic increased with a non-advertiser? Sometimes when someone sees an ad for an EV they may search all EVs to compare increasing the traffic of someone that didnt even run an ad.
I think to properly compare the Cybertruck to a traditional truck it needs to be placed in a similar category as the other trucks. Is Cybertruck a 1/2 ton F150 or a HD one-ton F350? For the work guy that’s towing a small excavator or bobcat around 10-15k lbs I doubt he will have the same response as the lighter duty 1000lbs of grain or hay. All these comparisons are very subjective to the classification you place it in.
Interesting cybertruck video. It covered a lot of the same things as another video I saw yesterday, decent driving/steering feel “at speed,” bad outward visibility, wind noise at speed, and weird steering wheel and controls, not a good thing, even though you can “get used to it,” up to a point. This video did not demonstrate 0-60 runs that were impressive in the video I saw yesterday. For his use, hauling bags of horse and hay, and having home charging, it, or a Lightning or other EV truck would work well. It sounded like he doesn’t plan on doing any road trips with it while towing a trailer.
Lambo, from CR’s charts, max load F350, 4565 lb. Cybertruck, 2500 lb., F150, 1475 lb. Towing, 27000 lb., 11000 lb., 7700 lb. The range of the Cybertruck won’t be very good if towing 11000 lb.
I suspect the F150 would have significantly higher load and tow ratings with packages CR’s test truck didn’t have.
Chrysler says it will have an all-electric lineup by 2028. Does that mean the Pacifica will become electric, they will drop it, or maybe Pacifica will become a Dodge? Is there any word about it, or rumors?
Sure looks like Stellantis is reluctantly electrifying. It’s childish to refuse to mention Tesla or NACS in the announcement.
Personally, I would think a Ford F150 Lightning would be a lot more useful on a farm or job site. Fine to chuck feed bags from a loading dock over the tailgate into the back of the Cybertruck but so much is done with the bed from the side. No room to climb in to unload and sloping sides (like original Ridgeline) make side access difficult. Plus the Lightning has portable power; ideal for using with machinery like grain augers after electric conversion. The Cybertruck visibility would also be a major disadvantage.
I watched the video with John and it was excellent. I didn’t get the feeling the 0-60 time would be the asset for farmers that Elon insists people pay for.
The cybertruck video I saw yesterday involved hauling nothing, except maybe a small duffel bag or two in the frunk, and nothing in the back. They did some quick 0-60 runs, though. Yeah, I’d think a Lightning would be much better to actually haul anything, but cybertruck will appeal to Tesla fan boys, and others who just want something “different.”
Yep, the video with John was excellent, and was from a different perspective than the one I watched yesterday, which was for the drag strip, but mainly a road trip from Fremont to Yosemite, using superchargers, and measuring actual range. It’s kind of long, ~40 minutes, and had quite a bit of silliness, but was interesting, if anyone’s interested.
https://youtu.be/xNE-NyaYBcg?si=-N2oVls1m4xYtdo_
It was a great CT video, showing good & bad points. I know that on my RAM, the wiper arms are very easy to pop off/on, I wonder how easy it is on the CT? We don’t get much rain here, so if it’s as annoying as he said (being in the field of view), I would probably pop that big arm off and keep it under the back seat until the forecast calls for umbrellas & wiper!
I was hoping John would get a chance to drive, to get his hands-on perspective, but aside from that, it was well covered.
That’s one of the few CT vids I watched. A little long-winded in places, but quite entertaining. Appreciated the perspective in John’s interview.
I’m still amazed the Rivian has a better cw-value than the CT. I wonder how much weight (and time and money) aluminum body panels would have saved.
Nothing against the Cybertruck, I’d drive one in a heartbeat if someone else paid for it, but that said, people who get trucks to really use as a truck, not a truck/daily driver, don’t get trucks with all the bells and whistles. There’s a huge price disparity between a Cybertruck and the base model of any other truck.
Kit, the Pacifica is already available as a plug-in hybrid, valid for the $7500 tax credit, so it probably counts in there eyes as “all-electric” enough for their claim, if they just drop the gas only version. Either that, or make an all electric Pacifica, and use the current power train to “bring back” the Dodge Caravan name as a ICE &/or hybrid under the Dodge brand with slight body modifications.
Kit, thanks for the CT video link. I cannot fine the ALD video link about the CT via my iPhone access to ALD.
Ukendoit, looking at CR’s reliability survey results, it looks like the Pacifica plug-in hybrid may be why Chrysler is at the bottom in both JD Power and CR brand reliability results. I don’t know what the actual problem might be, or who makes the system. It uses the regular 3.6 V6 engine.
I’d like to see them make a non-plug-in hybrid, with a 4 cylinder engine, to compete with Sienna. It would both cost less than the plug-in, and they could probably retain stow and go, having a smaller battery.
I guy I know has a Rivian R1T, and he likes it, so far, but charges it only at home and work. I don’t think he has taken it on any trips where he’d use public charging. Saturday, he was getting a little free power at KSC from a 120v outlet. He said he gets about 1.5 miles per hour of charging from a 120v outlet, so he got about 10 miles of free juice that day.
Ukendoit- The question I have for Chrysler is, can you say you’ll have an “All Electric line-up” and still offer a model with an ICE engine? Electrification seems to include hybrids even when they are not plug-ins. So, although it is worded like they will be solely BEVs I doubt they will. They technically could maintain an ICE Pacifica and since they do offer it also in a PHEV or BEV version wouldn’t it still be a fully electric lineup since the model would be offered with an electric powertrain? As these automakers try and prepare to balance the market demand of ICE and EV, I wouldn’t be surprised to see a lot more offerings where you can get a model in ICE, Hybrid and BEV. Designing a vehicle with those options in mind would allow them to quickly adjust the assembly plant to market demand. Keep pumping out ICE if people want them with the option to add more BEVs as needed.
I think “All Electric Line-up” could mean a few different things.
As the market sorts out, I’d expect companies to “change their minds” about going all EV, and they may use the term “electrification” to mean everything from BEVs to mild hybrids.
As far as Chrysler, the current Pacifica PHEV, except for suspect reliability, seems to work pretty well. It has up to 32 miles of electric range, if driven gently, and would get very good mpg on short trips, with the engine running part of the time, even driven fairly hard, if plugged in regularly. If not plugged in at all, it gets a very good 30 mpg combined. That’s not as good as Sienna, but much better than the non-hybrid competition.
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=45948&id=46249&id=46372&id=45203
It appears that GM dropped the 2 tier battery options and is just using a single battery for the EV Equinox. The original $30K variant was supposed to use a small low range battery and the higher range battery was starting at $40K. Looks like GM split the difference and is only using the high range battery and starting at $35K. That is not so bad especially with the $7500 tax credit. I think the use case for the equinox EV is fitting with the lifestyle most equinox owners have. Road trips would be problematic, but that is true for all EVs. At least the base model price is not that bad. I would buy it over a Model Y any day of the week.
Kit- Do you know if the Hybrid Pacifica has regen braking?
I’m a bit torn on Hybrids as I like the concept having some EV range with no range anxiety. What I don’t like is the complexity of maintaining two powertrains. So having all the regular maintenance of an ICE with the added cost, weight and maintenance of a battery system.
Also, most of the hybrids I’ve driven place a very anemic engine under the hood leaving the EV power to provide adequate acceleration at slow speeds. But are just horrible at highway speeds. It’s been a while so hopefully the more recent ones join the two systems better utilizing the best of both powertrains.
There is a You Tube creator “Tavarish” that is taking a McLaren P1 and removing the “hyperdrive” or battery and hybrid version of the car and just making up the difference in raw HP. Increasing the engine output to around 1400 hp and reducing the weight of the car by removing the 250lb battery and other components totaling 400lbs.
Now this isn’t for economy, Its an exotic sportscar so it’s about speed. They believe it could be faster than the McLaren F1 and topple that cars 240mph top speed. Oh and its not really ruining a Million dollar car because it was a flood totaled P1. The whole series is a great watch for car guys.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a67zAYZhQd0
Lambo, the Pacifica hybrid uses regen braking, like most other plug-in and non plug-in hybrids.
I’ve had 3 hybrids, a gen 3 Prius, Camry, and Highlander, and they all work fine at highway speeds. What hybrid did you find to be “horrible”? My highway speed is generally ~80 mph. Maybe a gen 3 Prius would be horrible if you want to cruise at 100 mph, but it was fine at 80.
As far is the “benchmark” of 0-60, a gen 3 or 4 Prius are on the slow side, 10-11 seconds. Camry and Highlander hybrid, and current Prius do about 8 seconds, similar to a Chevy Tahoe with the 5.3 engine.
There is no extra maintenance with hybrids. You change the oil once a year or 10K miles, and that’s about it. Maybe the battery would be an issue at some point, but it would be many years/miles.
Kit- I believe it was a 2nd gen Prius and I didnt mean top speed but like passing power at highway speeds. The cars built for economy are pretty well tapped out over 60. Passing a semi on a two lane road would require some distance.
Interesting video about the P1. What a mess to begin with, being flooded in sea water.
Lambo, a 2nd gen Prius was a little slower than a 3rd gen, but probably quicker than the tdi Jetta wagon I had, which was ok for passing semis on not-too-busy two lane roads.