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Runtime: 11:10
0:00 Toyota Targets Rolls-Royce & Bentley
1:26 Toyota Workers Demand Record Bonus
2:28 Car Dealers Beg Biden To Delay EVs–Again
3:19 Lincoln Slashes U.S. Dealer Network
4:05 Porsche Says EU Could Delay ICE Ban
5:00 Renault Grows Hydrogen Business
6:20 GM Says Fuel Cells Not Ideal for Light Vehicles
7:01 Honda Prologue EV Starts At $48,800
8:03 GM Cruise Under DOJ & SEC Investigations
9:21 BMW Uses Auto Tech to Help German Lugers
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This is Autoline Daily, the show dedicated to enthusiasts of the global automotive industry.
TOYOTA TARGETS ROLLS-ROYCE & BENTLEY
Move over Rolls-Royce and Bentley. Toyota wants a piece of your action. According to Forbes, Toyota will spin off its Century models into a standalone global luxury brand that will compete at the top of the luxury market, well above Lexus. Forbes was told the plans by an unnamed Toyota executive at the Tokyo auto show. And Wards also reports that the company has filed trademarks for the Century name in several different countries. The Toyota Century sedan has been around since the late 1960’s and is currently made for the Japanese market, typically used to chauffeur around business executives or politicians. But last September, Toyota also revealed the Century SUV that costs $170,000 and earlier this month at the Tokyo show, it introduced a bespoke version of the SUV called the GRMN that costs $220,000. This is the model that is said to first be going to global markets, like Europe, the Middle East, Asia and the Americas and will be offered in both right and left hand drive. And these models could be extremely profitable for Toyota, which dovetails perfectly with our next story.
TOYOTA WORKERS DEMAND RECORD BONUS
Japanese autoworkers almost never go on strike. And they probably won’t this time either. But they’re demanding record bonuses from Toyota, which expects to post an eye-popping operating profit of more than $30 billion when its fiscal year closes at the end of March. Autoworkers in Japan don’t get paid by the hour, they get paid by the month. And at the end of the fiscal year, they get a bonus, which works out to several months of pay. Toyota’s union is demanding 7.6 months of pay for the next bonus, up from 6.7 months last year. And it will probably get it. In the past, Japanese autoworkers have been known to wear black armbands to signal their displeasure with management instead of calling a strike and walking off the job. And that sure shows a different cultural approach compared to what unions do in the US, the EU or South Korea.
CAR DEALERS BEG BIDEN TO DELAY EVs–AGAIN
5,000 US dealers sent a letter to the Biden Administration asking it to hit the brakes on new emission standards that will force EVs to hit 67% market share by 2032. Last November, 4,000 dealers sent a similar letter but never got a response. So, maybe more is better? They’re asking the Biden administration to wait until battery supply chains outside of China get developed. And they want it to wait until the public charging infrastructure gets fully built. Here’s our Autoline Insight. The dealers are probably right that getting BEVs to 67% market share by 2032 is too ambitious of a goal. But the supply chains and infrastructure are never going to get built unless there are enough EVs to justify those investments.
LINCOLN SLASHES U.S. DEALER NETWORK
And speaking of dealers. Lincoln is getting rid of more of them. Automotive News reports that the automaker dropped 100 dealerships last year and will cut another 100 this year. That will leave the company with 400 dealerships in the U.S. or about 40% fewer than it had in 2021. Lincoln wants more standalone dealers, so it’s offering buyouts to most that are also paired with a Ford showroom. By trimming its dealer network, Lincoln hopes to boost sales and increase dealership throughput. Lincoln’s sales in the U.S. have been declining for years. In 2023, it sold nearly 82,000 vehicles which is 4,000 fewer than it sold in 2011.
PORSCHE SAYS EU COULD DELAY ICE BAN
The EU had planned to ban new ICEs after 2035, but Porsche’s CFO thinks it could be forced to reconsider this plan due to a slowdown in EV orders. He says there could be a delay in the ban. You may remember that several countries successfully lobbied to exempt new ICE cars sold after 2035 as long as they run on some sort of climate-neutral fuel. And Porsche is one of the bigger players in the development of synthetic fuels.
RENAULT GROWS HYDROGEN BUSINESS
Renault says its hydrogen and fuel cell division, called HYVIA, is starting to make the transition from a pioneer in the segment to a volume producer. It’s going to deliver around 50 versions of its H2-Tech vans, which are based on the Renault Master Van, to an area around the French Alps by the end of this year. That same area eventually plans to have 15 refueling stations, 400 hydrogen-powered commercial vehicles as well as 80 heavy-duty trucks, 50 of which will be retrofitted units. Along with generous regional subsidies of roughly 24,000 – 37,000 euros to buy a commercial fuel cell vehicle, it’s hoping to accelerate the rollout of the segment. HYVIA is also applying its hydrogen fuel cell system to another version of Renault’s Master Van. I believe this is a longer wheelbase version, which allows users to carry more weight and gives them more conversion options. As for the setup, it features a 30-kW fuel cell stack, 4 hydrogen tanks mounted in the floor and a 57 kW or roughly 75 horsepower electric motor. But it also features a 33-kWh battery under the front seats, so it can run on pure electric power as well.
GM SAYS FUEL CELLS NOT IDEAL FOR LIGHT VEHICLES
If you’d like to learn a lot more about the viability of fuel cells, check out the latest episode of Autoline After Hours. Charlie Freese, who runs all of GM’s fuel cell development is on the show, and he has some terrific insights. One thing he talked about is how GM is working on making hydrogen on-site, like for fleets, that would significantly cut the cost of hydrogen since it wouldn’t have to be transported. He doesn’t see much application for fuel cells in light vehicles, but talks about the opportunities in forklifts, mining trucks, aircraft, trains, long haul trucks, and emergency backup power.
HONDA PROLOGUE EV STARTS AT $48,800
Honda released prices of the Prologue EV. The base version with a single motor and an EPA range of 296 miles is priced just a shade under $48,800 including destination. And you can walk that up to a fully loaded, dual motor, all wheel drive version at just under $59,300. Honda is also offering several charging packages including a $500 credit for putting in a Level II charger at your home. Even though Honda announced pricing, it doesn’t expect Prologues in showrooms until sometime this spring. And it will only be sold in ZEV states, plus Texas and Florida, which have turned into EV hotbeds according to Honda. The vehicle will be built by General Motors and though GM has hit a lot of teething problems building its EVs, Honda says there’s a lot of pent-up demand for the vehicle and it’s confident the Prologue will hit its sales targets.
GM CRUISE UNDER DOJ & SEC INVESTIGATIONS
GM’s autonomous unit Cruise is in hot water. Yesterday in a blog post, it revealed that it’s under investigation by both the U.S. Department of Justice and the Securities and Exchange Commission, over an accident last October where one of its vehicles dragged a pedestrian after they were struck by another vehicle. NHTSA is also investigating the same accident. Cruise commissioned a report from an independent law firm which found the company didn’t intend to mislead investigators. However, it cited “inadequate and uncoordinated internal processes, mistakes in judgment, an ‘us versus them’ mentality with government officials, and a fundamental misunderstanding of regulatory requirements and expectations.” A separate technical review by an independent engineering firm found that the vehicle in the accident had mapping error issues and incorrectly identified the pedestrian it hit as a side impact collision. Since the accident, Cruise has fired nine executives and its CEO and co-founder both resigned. The company has also suspended its driverless operations in the U.S.
BMW USES AUTO TECH TO HELP GERMAN LUGERS
Here’s an interesting one. BMW is using automotive technology and principles to help improve German lugers. Since 2016 it’s been installing sensors on test sleds that record things like speed, acceleration, steering movements, yaw rate and more and then pumps it into a software program to analyze the data. BMW says that it’s collected so much information that it can even help identify the ideal racing line and proper sled setup.
But that’s the end of today’s show. Thanks for making Autoline a part of your day and I hope you have a great weekend.
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Toytota Century- because it will take a century to pay it off? 😉
After my comments from yesterdays show I can say I’m not surprised to hear EU may delay the ICE ban. Or that 5000 dealers wrote a letter to Biden to back off the 67% EVs by 2032.
I would hate to see Lincoln go belly up but it’s not looking good for them. Maybe they’ll soon realize that you cant make it on up-scale re-badged Fords. They only have the Nautilus and the Navigator. Bring out something exclusive to Lincoln. I cant imagine anyone wanting to open a Lincoln dealership that only has two vehicles.
GM says fuel cells are not a good fit for light vehicles meanwhile Electric isnt proving to be great for HD vehicles. Looking more and more like Hydrogen is a. better fit for HD and long haul vehicles. Its just making the fuel that still needs resolved.
GM is learning the hard lesson of launching a product before its time with AV tech. As I commented on this yesterday too. AV is much further from being widely available than what was touted. I wonder if GM has a planned date to return Cruise to the roads.
How can Lincoln expect to “boost sales” when they are eliminating 200 dealers, and will have only two models, Navigator, and a Chinese mid-size CUV? And stand-alone dealers? They must be kidding. At least the new, Chinese Nautilus will be a Lincoln exclusive, as the Edge is going away.
The closest Lincoln dealer to me, that I know of, is Jaguar/Land Rover/Lincoln. That mix sort of makes sense, but Land Rover is the only one of those that seems to have much of a future, if they do.
I often wonder if long haul trucks would be more efficient with a Diesel-Electric setup like most trains are. Trains have used this approach since the 1920-30s without a battery. I wonder if using a small battery for just peak usages and a diesel generator that could run at a constant rpm at its most efficient speed powering electric motors would be better than direct link diesel. Maybe still lighter than a mega-battery pack required for a EV truck.
I mean yeah, you’re still burning diesel fuel but it might be more efficient and would likely provide better torque.
Trucks would be less efficient with a diesel-electric setup like locomotives. They use it for trains, because controlling power to a multi-million pound train works much better with electrical control, than with the 60 or 80 speed transmission and clutch(es) they’d need to do it by mechanical means.
Komatsu already makes diesel-electric trucks for the mining industry more reliable than Cat. On another note hydrogen is much more difficult/dangerous to handle than propane which will make it difficult to compete against electrical battery power with its current state of development and battery charging is going to get better
Yeah, diesel-electric is used for huge mining trucks, for the same reasons it is used for trains. There have been, or maybe still are some small diesel locomotives with hydraulic drive.
Lambo- Lincoln has 4 vehicles. You omitted Aviator and Corsair. The latter is their bestseller.
“In 2023, it sold nearly 82,000 vehicles which is 4,000 fewer than it sold in 2011. Well, duh. Is it a coincidence that they dropped the Town Car in 2011? They attempted to hold onto the livery market with the laughable MKT, even rebranding it as a Town Car. Nobody was fooled. Then they dropped the MKZ and Continental in 2020, leaving them with no sedans in the lineup. I remember reading at the time that Lincoln dealers complained that sedans accounted for 25% of their sales. They lost loyal customers, like myself, who were forced to shop elsewhere. After my 2020 MKZ 3.0TT, I moved on to a 2023 Genesis G70 3.3TT and haven’t looked back. I’m lovin’ it. To paraphrase Ronald Reagan, I didn’t leave Lincoln, they left me.
This isn’t all that hard to figure out.
A Century brand may compete well with the likes of Range Rover (in price), Mercede’s Maybach and low end Bentley’s, but Rolls Royces? I don’t think so! The Century CUV (since its FWD, car based) model look head and shoulders better then the RDX and the GX and LX SUVs to my eye. I’m kind of warming to the TX, but the Century CUV has it beat hands down! The Flying Spur makes the new Century sedan look 20 to 30 years older then it actually is, when they are placed side by side. It also just does not have the presence of either the Ghost or the Phantom, either. Looking at the Century sedan and I would probably take the a Lucid Air Dream addition or Sapphire, if it were my money. While I think that the Century could find its footing and place in the worldwide uber luxury market, IMHO, it would find a space and a good living above Lexus, in the $100K-$200K market. The space that is in the home of Maybach, Aston Martin, Land Rover Range Rover, but below Bentley and we’ll under Rolls Royce.
Not sure how accurate this is, but word is Thursday Ford announced it’s not investing the ear marked 12 billion in its EV plants.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTWvrntZFRE
ArtG- I thought there was more thanks. If you type in 2023 Lincoln vehicles. Only the two come up but yes when I typed in 2024 all 4 vehicles showed up. Weird.
Haven’t they announced that they will be dropping the Corsair and Aviator after 2024, or maybe it was 2025?
Ford has been very closed lip about future product plans, unlike GM and Stellantis, in some respects. While GM has shown off concepts and up coming products like the ICE and EV Equinox, undated Traverse and EV Blazer, some of the Wildcat concepts styling being grafted on to vehicles at Buick, upcoming Cadillac EVs, as well as updated ICE vehicles in its range, along with at least some movement of the on the Chrysler, Jeep, Dodge and Ram side of Stellantis, with their Charger and Wagoneer S and hurricane I6, there has been little to nothing with Ford or Lincoln! Outside of that way out there Lincoln concepts of several years ago and conversation/rumors of more EVs in the very near future in both Ford and Lincoln lineup, the most talked about and hyped thing from Ford, has been the Detroit Lions! Future product was one of the main reasons I went to the Detroit international auto show and paid so much attention to coverage of the auto shows around the world. To see future product, especially the near, production ready models and examples from the home market! With the Detroit Three sitting out the next several shows (Chicago and New York), it’s hard to get excited about what Ford is going to do next, how it might line up with the competition, how far will the next marker have to be moved and how close has the rest of the industry come to catching Tesla, if at all?! I guess we will just have to fold our collective arms and wait and see!
The dealers know EV’s will break down a lot less. Take for example, the air handling houses on the roofs of GM’s assembly buildings, holds many large motors and works 24/7. The motors are tagged so they can do preventive maintenance about once year or so. Electric motors will outlast an ICE by a great deal…..plus you do not have to have a transmission. Eventually Ev’s will be much cheaper as the auto makers better setup their assembly lines and when batteries get cheaper. Dealers know this because they also have air handling houses of their roofs. EV’s will last a lot longer and at the same time cost less. This will take time for it to happen, but it will happen.
Except for charging for EV road trippers, and hype, the rest of the industry has already caught Tesla. If you take real world range, rather than somehow exagerated Tesla ratings, others are about equal. Then, there’s the little thing of Tesla’s worst in the world operator interface.
GM has done too much “early introduction” with Lyriq, Blazer EV, Equinox EV, etc., that they can’t build in volume.
Lambo, I’ve been kicking around the idea of hybrid trucks too. It just makes so much sense for vehicles that cruise over long distances day in day out, and only need a power surge for acceleration.
Considering how compact even 400hp electric motors are, while right-sizing the turbocharged Diesel, it’s intriguing. It would be interesting to get a rough idea of the battery pack’s minimum size.
The US produces a lot of biodiesel: about 150 million gallons a month in 2020.
Source http://www.eia DOT gov/biofuels/biodiesel/production/
Which is nothing compared to Ethanol output: 15.8 billion U.S. liquid gallons in 2019. About 1/3rd of all corn grown goes into Ethanol production. And this isn’t taking calories away from someone’s diet, there’s enough food in the world for all.
On the subject of Tesla, I think they still have a lot of advantages over legacy manufacturers. Being able to actually build nearly 2 million EVs with great margins is one, and they’re clearly attracting buyers all over the globe’s principal markets.
Neither Ford nor GM still have a footprint to rival that, never mind the sourcing. Or mindset.
And despite the FSD saga, Tesla still is ahead when it comes to electronics and software. What it needs is a focus on driver and passenger convenience here and now.
*only need a power surge for acceleration. Sigh. Fill in the blanks, thank you.
Sean, regarding Tesla, I just meant that others are equal, or better, from the customer’s perspective. Yep, Tesla is clearly the best at making a lot of EVs, and for the last few years, at a profit.
Hybrid trucks, with batteries, would be great for urban use in stop-and-go traffic, and would be especially good for garbage trucks that stop every ~50 feet. For over-the-road trucks, hybrid powertrains would allow use of smaller diesels, with the battery power available for acceleration and climbing. Required battery size would depend on how long and/or steep the longest climbs would be. Would hybrids be much, or any more efficient for normal highway use, or are the big diesels running at their “sweet spot” rpm as efficient as somewhat smaller ones producing the same amount of power at cruise speed? I don’t know. Other than stop-and-go driving, hybrid trucks would be at their best in hilly terrain, where they’d make good use of regen braking.
Thinking about the conversation to EVs, I know that there is a lot of disagreement on how, where and even if the switch is necessary. That they are being forced down buyers throats, pushed and moved too quickly, whether or not the government(s) should be incentivizing adoption, or if a more ‘natural’ transition should be allowed to take place. Whether the tech is truly ready for prime time, especially with all the hiccups, lack of a real recharging infrastructure and the other mysteries and unknowns associated with such a move. Many have argued that move to EV from ICE vehicles, is like the change from horse and buggy transportation, to locomotive and eventually to internal combustion.
For those who believe the move to EVs is going too fast, consider the Internet. Seeing the growing trend and potential before and especially after the Covid out break, more and more government entities, schools, companies, organizations, along with various social media outlets, have made it difficult to near impossible to interact with them without the internet! As that need has steadily increased, the US government at least has invested millions in to subsidize, building up and support the budding infrastructure. Building cell towers in regions with little to no service, allowing adoption to move more quickly nationwide. Yet, unlike EVs their is little to no push back on making the Internet more accessible and readily available to more individuals, even though WE KNOW that there are a host of unsolved issues with it, from hacking, the spreading of falsehoods and fake news and a number of other mysteries and unknowns that we are years away from solving, fixing and correcting. Yet, collectively, before we can even get our hands around most of these serious concerns, we head on unabated and unflinched at the potential dangers we could be putting ourselves in! The thought being we will address them as we face them and those we can’t, we will learn to live with them until we can! With EVs, though, many of the concerns we ARE aware of and are in the process of either fixing them, or working around them. How do you stop fake news, or untruths on the Internet, especially with A.I. on the horizon?! Stop using the internet and our computers, cell phones and other electronic devices? Go back to ink, paper and pencil? Will news papers EVER come back? But EVs are the enemy, will never work, don’t have enough range, loose power when hauling, there’s not enough charging infrastructure, what about those living way out in rural areas, apartments or condominiums, and the list goes on! Like what you like and a person has every right to hate EVs! They may never replace ICE in ever application, but just because they won’t doesn’t mean that they will not work in most instances. EVs will not be as easy to live with as many think, but they will not, will not, be as difficult as most naysayers say they will be!
Today, I talked to a guy with a Rivian pickup. He charges it two places, at home, and at work. He has never used regular public charging. The next time I see him, I’ll find out if he has other vehicles, or if he just never takes road trips. I don’t know if he ever hauls anything that wouldn’t fit in a Chevy Bolt, of if he has some actual need for the Rivian. I’ve never seen anything in the bed.
Most already know this, sorry for the repeat diatribe (but it’s not that hard of a concept) and I’m going to say it anyway.
So back in the day there was ICE and electric vehicles (and steam, etc.), what happened; the ICE was just better. Almost the same thing today; when BEV is better than ICE (some BEV are better at certain things than ICE now) we will see the switch. If you want conversion to BEV (the governments mostly), when it gets better you won’t need to ‘push’, it will happen naturally (or co-exist for an indeterminant time) until the winner will edge out.
Chuck, yep, ICE, including hybrids will be best for some things for a long time, while BEVs are already better for some things, like short distance commuting for those with home charging.
The EV subsidies are to make EVs more affordable, in the same way oil company subsidies were, and are to make driving ICErs more affordable.
The thing that I think should have more subsidies is public transport. People use public transport, where it works well. There aren’t many places in the US with particularly good public transport.
Kit, all for it when it comes to mass transit like light rail and modern, driverless subway systems on a par with Asia and Europe. But when we look at what WAYMO is doing, it seems logical to me that autonomous shuttles on largely predetermined routes will take over from conventional buses. Smaller vehicles with higher frequencies, especially during peak hours.
On the ICE EV debate I’m glad to see others see the same thing I been saying. I’m not against EVs and think they are great for certain applications. I think they do work better already depending on the use. All I’ve ever said was EVs should be viewed as a supplement to our transportation and not a 100% replacement.
Get em, use em and eventually people will find ways to expand the use of a better product. If the price was comparable I would consider buying one now but still keep my ICE truck. But I would also install a home charger.
As for the comparison of this EV transition to the days of the horse and buggy the problem I have with that is at that time ICE was clearly a better product as no government incentives were required. Early adopters bought gas at the pharmacy, but eventually gas companies put up stations to sell their product (gas). No one looked to the government to subsidize their car purchase or install gas stations. The transition occurred naturally without government interference. So if EVs are a better product, which I believe they are in some cases then let the product sell itself. The forcing of a product just causes undue cost to everyone other than policy makers. Forcing EVs on the public requires us to pay more. Subsidized by our tax dollars. Then when automakers dont sell enough the gov is going to fine them? Which then just puts the burden again back on the consumer to pay more for every vehicle to offset gov fines. Then when you do buy an EV only to find out that you’re spending just as much to get from A to B so there never really was much if any savings. So you just end up spending more to get something less convenient. But they say its better for the environment until 20 years from now they realize it created a bigger problem. But thats speculation.
There may not have been financial incentives to buy cars in the early days, but there were huge subsidies to oil companies, to help get the gas stations established. There are still subsidies for fossil fuel production.
This is an interesting video testing range of a Cybertruck while towing ~11,000 pounds. It got 90 miles, actually a little less than a Rivian or Lightning.
https://youtu.be/yk_u9fbkoKM?si=gvgQIzdhHV2r1Mwd
Here is an interesting article about all the EV busses we all paid for via the Gov. That are now sitting idle.
Gov Granholm of Michigan was on the board and made a hefty 1.6 million selling her stock prior to the company going belly up in Chapter 11.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/electric-buses-are-sitting-unused-in-cities-across-the-us-here-s-why/ar-BB1hqxsF?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=5a4e117cc46040e1a4ccaa08c0a27d35&ei=103
Granholm sold her stock when she became energy sec. because having it was a conflict of interest, not because she knew Proterra would file bankruptcy 3 years later.
Anyway, it looks like transit systems should buy electric busses from BYD. They seem to be better. Hopefully the new owner of Proterra will get the busses running, and fix some of the design and/or manufacturing problems they had.